5. Accepting Life on Life's Terms. When life's not easy - whether it's our internal struggles or situations, accepting 'what is' is the first step in finding healing & peace. But how? Conversation w/ Therapist Jim Beebe 

My friend, this is one of those episodes you will want to listen to over and over again, and take notes! And maybe even talk it through with a friend! 

This is part 1 of my conversation with my therapist Jim Beebe who has been a Therapist for 38 years. Jim is the real deal and has awesome experience and perspective! 

Jim digs into some practical ways of how to live well when living in really difficult circumstances or when things about ourselves are driving us bonkers! If we are struggling with acceptance of our lives or any part of ourselves or circumstances we may be facing— we are typically caught in a painful cycle of effort, failure and shame.

Judging ourselves and/or shaming ourself or others, for the struggles will never bring the healing Jesus wants to bring us. 

When we begin to accept our life and our stories, that is when God begins to transform our pain into purpose, and not just suffering. 

Acceptance can be a process. 

Verses mentioned:

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 “Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.”

Romans 2:4 “Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?”

James 1:2 “Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds,”

My husband Gary says about Jim - “Jim has a masterful way of giving practical application not just theoretical philosophy.”

Jim’s quotes from the show:

We live in that silent wish, all the while living a duel citizenship between the world as I want it to be and the world that is.

We are all just trying to learn how to live in our life, well.  And find love, joy and peace along the way. 

We live this side of the veil, we are human… everybody can tell you that they have challenges in their life. 

God game us feelings to teach us.

It’s good to be honest with yourself, about yourself. 

Judging ourselves will get you to work hard, but it won’t lead you to healing. 

Judging yourself for being yourself, will get you no where.

We all are victimized, we have to fight to not be the victim.

Responsibility is the ability to give a response.

Expectations are premeditated resentments. 

Show notes!

(00:00):

Hello, my friends! Welcome back to another episode of a Holy Mess Podcast. You guys I'm so stoked. So today is our first guest episode. It's actually a two part episode. So part one will air today, part two will air in a few days. It is with Jim Beebe, he is a licensed marriage and family therapist. He's my therapist! The guy is rad, you guys are gonna love him! I cannot wait for you to hear this message. I actually just listened to it before recording this little intro and oh my gosh you guys, I took like a page in notes. So Jim dives into the tangible ways and some tactical ways to live in really uncomfortable circumstances. So, he dives into the subject of acceptance and we totally know this is a huge subject. We could have talked on it for hours. There is so much literature and just so much amazing information out there in the world for us to figure out how to live this life.

(00:57):

Like how do we accept the things in our lives that are absolutely unacceptable? How do we live and be okay in the things in our lives that are not okay, and all of these situations. So Jim really dives into it. It's super great. We're gonna have him on again. He's fantastic. So, I wanted to say a quote that he wrote in his article that will be linked in the show notes. He also mentioned several great resources, some books and that sort of thing, which I'll also put in the show notes as well, so you can access those as well. Jim says in his article about acceptance, he says, we live in that silent wish, all the while living a dual citizenship between the world as I want it to be, and the world that is. You guys, that is so profound.

(01:46):

That is just incredible. That is what we're all after here. How do we live in those places in our lives, circumstances, emotions, all of those things that are very uncomfortable, sometimes just horrendous. How do we live well in those places? And so, I really cannot wait for you guys to hear this! I cannot wait for you to hear Jim's heart and his wisdom, his amazing experience. So I wanted to give you a little bit of background about Jim, and then we'll dive right in. So like I said, Jim is a licensed marriage and family therapist. He's been a therapist for 38 years. You know, Jim, he has a pastor's heart, he has a Shepherd's heart. So it's no surprise that he received his bachelor's from San Jose Bible College. He also received his master's degree from Fuller Theological Seminary in marriage and family counseling. Jim is the founder and the director of abundant life counseling,

(02:35):

and he really has a heart for integrating God's word in seeking wholeness, spiritually, emotionally, and relationally. Jim and his awesome wife have been married for 33 years and they have two wonderful grown children. You guys, this content is gold. If you can, and you're not driving, I would encourage you to grab a piece of paper, grab a pen. This is one of those episodes where you can take notes, where you can go back to and reference and all of that. So, gosh, man, I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did. All right, God bless you guys!

(03:06):

Welcome to a Holy Mess Podcast. All right, my friends, we all know life can be so difficult and painful at times. Especially when we're carrying grief or loss or wrestling with shame about our past, anxiety about our future, or frankly, like we are just not enough. But there has to be so much more for us. There is hope, joy, peace, love, fun purpose, and a reason that you my friend are on this planet. Let's partner with God so you can be who he created you to be, as you wrestle through and trudge through your

mess. Hi, I'm Danny, a recovering alcoholic, a mom, a wife, a mentor and dust. We are only here for a moment. Let's live like it! I'm just like you. I'm a holy mess most days, actually, every day.

(03:54):
Let's have some fun and laugh while trudging through our mess. This stuff doesn't need to be dry and

boring. Let's dig in. Jim! Welcome to the podcast.

(04:08):
<hahaha (laugh) >

(04:10):
Sorry. Was that super cheesy?

(04:12):
I think you have enough enthusiasm just by yourself, Danny. You don't have to go any further at all.

<haha (laugh) > Just be you, just be you.

(04:22):
Oh man! Hasn't that been what we've been working on all these years?

(04:24):
Isn't that the message of today's podcast?

(04:27):
I think so. That's the message.

(04:28):
All we can be anyway, right? The minute we try to be something different, it just looks weird and

doesn't work. Yeah.

(04:33):

Isn't that the truth. I wanted to share something that Gary said about you. He said, I wrote it down, he said Jim has a masterful way of giving practical application, not just theoretical philosophy. Wow. Gary uses big words. Okay. Jim has basically you're really good at practical application, not just theoretical philosophy. Wasn't that nice? That kind of sums up Jim. So basically what that means is there's a lot of theories out there. There's a lot of heavy stuff and that's one of the hearts of the podcast. Like, okay. That's fantastic. Awesome. Thanks. I really want hope okay. Gimme the practical

(05:09):
That very nice. Yeah. Application. Yeah. Yeah. The how-tos yeah, the how-tos. And so get this. How do

we live this life called life, right? (05:15):

Yeah, exactly. So thanks for being on the podcast. Jim is our first official guest, A Holy Mess Podcast. So thank you. So I want to jump right in! We talked about something earlier this week that really resonated with me. And you talked about the rain concept and about what that means. So could you break that down a little bit for us? And as we're all walking through our own little firestorm, tensions are high just in the world in general, but we have our own little life going on. So break that down for me and what you see.

(05:46):

Yeah. Well, it's good to be with you. It's good to be on it. It's very fun. You have a voice that I really believe will be really helpful. And so I just wanna encourage you just to be you, as you share you. And you share the people you know and that the resources you have and we're all in this together. No one person, me for sure, has the corner on our at all, and what we've learned you and I over the years, there's no one solution to it all that's gonna fix everything. Right? So to me, so much of it, Danny, is I'm trying to learn how to live in my life. I'm trying to learn how to live with my history. I'm trying to live with my current situation and circumstance. I'm trying to learn to live with my own biology and my own challenges.

(06:31):

And at times craziness and character defects and at times gifts, all those things right? And the challenge of life is how to do that well and how to be able to find ways to do it and find love, joy and peace along the way as we live this life, right? How do I live this life and my life, right. And what may work for somebody else may not work for me, or only a piece of it'll work for me. I think that's why this comparison stuff that we all do is so nutsy! I do it too, but it's nutsy because we're different. And what may work for one person may not work for another person. Right? You mentioned the rain technique, I'll go over that in a minute. You and I have talked about the article I wrote about learning to live in this life in the world as it is.

(07:15):

Right? So we'll go over that a little bit today. But I think the basic idea is how do I live with me? How do I live with who I am in a way do it well. And if what we see in scripture is, yeah, we're moving one day at a time. We're trying to live out this life. But none of us ever until we're in heaven, we're not, we live this side of the veil and that means we're human. You cut us, we bleed. That means we're gonna stay up at 2:00 AM because our worries are gonna hijack us. Oh, we got a kid who's really gonna be scares us and, or is in trouble. Everybody can tell you that they have things in their life that are just really huge challenges to live with.

(07:53):

Totally! One of the things you brought up your article, and I'm gonna have a link to your article in the show notes, so you guys, if you wanna read Jim's article, it's fantastic! But one of the things that you said that I was just reviewing it really quick, two minutes before we jumped on the call, <haha (laugh)>, I'm like, I should read it beforeI talk about it. But one of the things that stuck out to me and I literally put the article down and was just like, you know what, this is enough manna for today. This fed my soul. But you said, we live in that silent wish, all the while living a dual citizenship between the world as I want it to be and the world that is. And I just thought that's a pretty profound quote. That's a pretty profound sentence. I loved it! I wanna read it one more time. We live in that silent wish, all the while living a dual

citizenship between the world as I want it to be and the world that is. Yeah. So can you expand on that a little bit?

(08:43):

Yeah. I think that we're really talking about this sense that when I have this wish and this at times, it really feels like a deep need for things to be different than they are, right? For my kid to be better than my kid, for my marriage to be different, or for me to be married, if I'm strong with singleness or to have that baby, if I'm stuck with infertility or to not be anxious or depressed or struggle with drinking, if whatever the struggle is, right? So there is that obviously we're humans, so we feel things, right? God gave us feelings to help teach us, but feelings can distress us and they warn us as something feels wrong, right? So I now start to struggle with my life as it is, and trying to find a way to live it well. And that's not bad that aspiration, that desire for something to be different and better is not bad, but within that is sort of this potential for some real problems, okay?

(09:38):

So what I try to say in the article and what I try to live, is that the things that I'm trying to grow and change in, if they're not first built out of acceptance, all you do is a cycle of effort, failure and shame. Effort, failure, and shame, effort failure over and over and over, because as Paul said, you know, these thorns in the flesh that we all have, right, that he also wanted things to be different. Paul also was saying, I don't like this. I don't like to live in this, be citizen of this world, whatever that thorn was, right? And what did God say? No, you know what, ain't gonna be different. You're gonna find some way to live with life as it is. And so Paul said all the more will I rejoice in those sufferings, right? That was like, oh man. So tell me how to do that?

(10:23):
Well, tell me, how did Paul only ask three times? <haha (laugh)>

(10:24):
Yeah, I think he was like downplaying it. My guess is probably a lot more than three, right?

(10:30):
It's two o'clock today. I've already asked three times today for some things to be different.

(10:32):
So yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly!

(10:35):
Hey friends, just for further clarification, the scripture we're talking about is in 2 Corinthians where Paul

literally says that he pleaded with the Lord to take this thorn away from him three times.

(10:47):

So it isn't that the desire and even the awareness that things need to be different, I need to grow or I need to attend to things.That's okay. But boy, it has a vicious downside to it when I don't think I'll be okay until it changes. Mm. Okay. That some part of me now is dependent on that thing out there being different. Wow. And the minute I'm wanting that, I need that to be different for me to be okay in here

inside of me, you're in trouble. Wow. You know, you're in trouble, right? So if we gotta talk about, okay, well Jim, what if those things never change?

(11:20):
Yeah, what if those external things never change I mean, that's a huge concept you just brought up

about

(11:24):

Yeah. But they never change. Yeah. What if my kid doesn't get into recovery? What if the cancer isn't in remission? What if I never have a baby? I mean, these are really rough things, right? And who are we, of course, to downplay that to anybody, whatever their thing is, is their thing. It is suffering for them and a trial for them, right? Absolutely. Okay. So the way I like to think of it, Danny, and you would not have heard this from me 20 or 30 years ago. 20 or 30 years ago I would've told you, man, we're gonna read the book, we're gonna listen to the podcast, we're gonna do X, Y, or Z, and we're gonna solve this thing. We're gonna fix it. Yeah. And I like that, I love that idea! And then you go on your way and happily ever after, right?

(12:05):

So that's sort of got beat outta me 20 years ago. <haha (laugh)> Because it just doesn't happen that way. Not the way I see it. I don't see the 60 sec and withdrawals. And if it is, I pray, God took away my desire. I never smoked again. If that happened, well, they got 25 other issues behind that they gotta deal with. That's what I see. Awesome. Yeah. That's what the real world I see, right? The par on my life, and a lot of this comes from Byron Katie's book, Loving What Is, and I just sort of adapted her book and Christianized it to help us with some things in our worldview that help us metabolize us a little better. But basically I said, there's these three steps you go through one day at a time over and over again. That's what it looks like in my life. Is if when I get hijacked by my latest anxiety, my head can talk to me all at once.

(12:52):

But boy, I am still in trouble. It's still a challenge. But the first step to me has been really helpful, which is expect what is. And we often expect things to be better than they are, okay? Now some people would say, well, I know my life's crappy and I expect it'd be crappy and you know, I'm just depressed about it and I'm feeling hopeless. So there's some people that actually expect things in a more resignation or depressed way. But I'm really trying to turn it around and say, stop judging what is, and trying to shame or not trying, but just shaming yourself for what is. First step is just say, can I sit in what is, and can I say this should be what it is because it is what it is. Mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. And this is what it get into that whole issue of shoulds, right?

(13:36):

What should we do, right? Well, an alcoholic should drink. Okay. They should. Me, I'm more of an anxious person. I should struggle with anxiety, okay? And you know how I know that, because I do, right?<haha (laugh)> Whatever your thing is, and whoever listening to this, whatever your thing is, it'll be something plural, right? Some things you should struggle with them cuz you struggle with them, that's you! And by the way, there's things you don't struggle with. You don't even think about because it's not the squeaky wheel then not your issue right? But the things that you struggle with, right. I'm sorry, I'm first just trying to expect me to be me.

(14:13):

So, If I can break it down, cuz I'm a recovering alcoholic and I have anxiety. So Danny should struggle with the desire to drink. Danny should struggle with that anxiety. Now that's not giving permission like, oh okay so Danny poor you no, you struggle with that. Go ahead and have a binge or go drink for three hours. You're not giving yourself permission to go off on these anxiety tangents and, and all that. What you're saying is, it is what it is. Beating ourselves up for it doesn't help. It's just accepting or embracing. Is that what I'm hearing from you?

(14:43):

Yes. Yeah. We'll go to the next steps. Yeah, it is exactly right Danny. So I could take, I say, oh, I guess I'm just have problem with anger, so when I, you know, sort of go off on it, break a few things in the house, oh well that's sort of me. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying first you're taking a really clear look at yourself. You know, the Lord searched my heart kind of thing. I mean honest with myself about myself. I love that. Listen, and including in that is good things too, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> We talk about a positive inventory also, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> We can take a character in the 12 steps, the searching moral inventory. We can do an inventory, but we can also do a positive inventory. It's all that, right? Sure. It's really trying to heal the judging ourselves for ourselves. Wow. That's huge. Huge because judgment and shame, I'm just telling you, it'll get you to work hard. It won't heal you ultimately because really ultimately, the deeper healing is actually the healing of the shame. It's not changing your struggle. It's actually healing the shame over the struggle. Wow. That's the deeper thing. That's the deeper healing.

(15:46):
Jim, that's like a three hour podcast right there. And that was like, I don't know, six years of therapy for

me. So that's interesting.

(15:52):

Well, this is it, right? So this is the Pharisees first, you know, Jesus hanging out with all the sinners and tax collectors and prostitutes, right? Yeah. And the Pharisees were focused on, we call first order change the behavioral change, right? Look good, do the right behaviors, you know, have all that in line, right. And those people, I bet you, they could, many of them could look at themselves and be pretty proud of themselves, right? And Jesus was like totally slamming them because he really realized its second order changes more of the deeper change underneath it, right? Wow. I love that. Even if you never change those things out on top, I'm assuming a bunch of people that hung out with Jesus that still were tax collectors and prostitutes and whatever, right? I'm sure they were still doing all that. Totally. But he really was drawn to that.

(16:36):

Because he was drawn to the brokenhearted, mm-hmm <affirmative> he was drawn to the people that are open, right? The people that weren't using religion to cover up. So I'm trying to expect what is, secondly, I'm trying to, I'm taking one day at a time to learn, to accept what is. This is me. This is my life, right? Can be very hard because I want someone else's life. I want a different person. I don't want deal with X, Y, or Z. I want a different spouse. I want a different kid. I want a different parent. I want a different past. Who doesn't? But I'm really doing this work one day at a time to accept it, that this is my life, right. And I'm trying within that acceptance to try to find positive acceptance. Very, very, very hard to do because it can veer off into resignation or despair. Hopefully positive acceptance is I see within

this, the roots of things that I see are gifts mm-hmm <affirmative> in the struggle. Sure. Yeah. This is rejoice in your sufferings kind of stuff. Counted all joy when you counted various trials and tribulations. And Danny, you know, as well as I do how hard this is when it's suffering.

(17:39):
Oh totally. Our suffering is so personal and it's so deep within us, right? And so exactly

(17:44):
It's it's suffering. Yeah, it is.

(17:46):

And I, I remember you saying to me long time ago, which I didn't thank you for, but I'll thank you for it now. But you said Danny doesn't matter what your history was, what your story is, you would still struggle. It doesn't matter who you're married to, or anything, you're still gonna have that internal angst and struggle, because some of it just is an internal angst and struggle, right?

(18:06):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right, right. So when I, one day, at a time trying to choose to accept, choose to have a positive acceptance, it begins to transform the pain into purpose, right? Not pain into suffering. Mm-hmm <affirmative> So, you know, they say pain is not optional, but suffering is, okay? All right, I like that, but man that can be really frustrating because I can beat myself up over that too, right? Oh totally. So this is, I had you long time ago, read Mans Search for Meaning Victor Frankl's book, right? Yes. Is how did he transform this into something higher? That acceptance now reorients me to my struggle. Mm- hmm <affirmative> And then the third step is I'm embracing what is as my path towards maturity and depth and grace and a whole bunch of good things. I'm embracing it. Now that third step,

(18:57):

so expecting what is, accepting what is, and embracing what is. That embracement of what is, is a lifelong journey. Mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. All these are really, these are nothing you do 1, 2, 3, and you're done with it, and now we just live in step three. Every day you gotta go back and forth through these things. But when I embrace it, then I start to mind, this is this stuff. Okay. This life that I have instead of living in either shame or despair with it, I try to say, okay, what are the things for me to learn and grow in? What can I do as I take care of myself? Or as I deal with whatever circumstance I'm in, right? And that's gonna be very individual to every person and every person's gonna have different things as they try to define tools and find wisdom of boundaries and all that stuff, they're gonna come out of this.

(19:45):

Totally. Totally. I love that. When you were talking, I was thinking you broke it down into expect what it is and then accept what is kind of takes off the shame or the deeper, just the beating up. Like we can't fix anything when we're beating ourselves up that struggle or for that circumstance. But then embracing what is, I was thinking about that as you talked about it earlier, but it's not like a relinquishment into despair, like, okay, I'm struggling with this, so I'm screwed forever. <haha (laugh)> Embracing it means, okay, what does this mean? And looking at it from a perspective of, okay, there's a depth of wisdom that comes with this. I can have deeper conversations with people. I can experience God's love and grace

actually in the hardest things. I mean that's holy ground, right? That's what we've talked about over the years, right. Where we actually deal with these things. And so I love that.

(20:34):

That's exactly. So when I'm embracing it, number one, I stop being the victim of it. That's a huge shift, huge shift, very hard. Right? Cause when we're in our struggles and everybody listening to this podcast, will have particular things that they feel overwhelmed by and helpless with and victimized by even themselves. That's very hard. I always tell people, we all are victimized. We have to fight to not be the victim. Okay. This sort of an identity issue, right? Acceptance and embracing really shifts me to a more positive perspective of and an active perspective of my challenge, my task. And there's always task to be done in life. Right?

(21:12):

Well, as you're saying that, so I wanted to just kind of break that down. It doesn't mean that the circumstances aren't horrible or maybe you were victimized, maybe you actually were a victim in the search situation. But after you worked through the acceptance of this is, is reality. This is what you have to deal with. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's like we can live in denial. We can fight it all we want, but once we accept it, it's like, then we can relinquish to, okay, I can now decide how to move forward in this situation. Yes. And take care of myself and be the best human being wife, mom, and whatever to be able to live life well, not just live in the constant state of victimhood. And I wanna just say, this is a big issue for people. I mean, I struggled with victimhood for how long, you know, more than anyone, but as you were talking, I just realized, oh my gosh. I mean, that's it, that's one of the things where we can't change what happened. We can't change the circumstances most of the time, but until we can embrace it, then we can take ownership and figure out how do I no longer live as a victim in this situation? And how do I take power back with God's power God's spirit and leading us guiding us. But how do I move forward in my life?

(22:23):

Hundred Percent. So let's take some examples. Okay. So let's say this person says my history. I see all the fruit of it. I'm an alcoholic. Okay. We know the first step is to hit bottom and to admit I got a problem. I got a problem. Okay. I'm expecting it, because knowing me, I've tried a thousand times to stop drinking and I keep falling off the way again, maybe I am an alcoholic. Okay. I'm trying to accept that this fits me. Okay. So when I own it and I accept that I have a problem, that begins me on the process of saying, okay, what do I do with it? I'm not expecting me. Right. I should expect me knowing me if I don't do anything else I should expect if I drink one, I'm gonna drink the 12 pack. That shouldn't surprise me.

(23:06):

That's what alcoholics do, right? So I no longer judge myself for doing it or shame myself for doing it. I just say, that's me. I shouldn't do something different because this is me. Okay. That's powerful, right. That helps to try to de-shame it. And it helps me shift how I take responsibility for myself. So embracing what is means, I try to find responsibility. Remember responsibility is the ability to give a response. I now figure out, okay, where am I able, right? So a person, you know, an alcoholic is gonna say, well, I gotta go get help. I'm gonna stumble into AA. Well maybe I should read the big book. Maybe I should get a sponsor. They tell me to go to 90 millions and 90 days. All right, I'll go do that, right? So I start to embrace it.

(23:51):

I start to embrace that. What are those things, as I take responsibility, that I can do that actually if I do them will help me be a better me, Mm-hmm <affirmative> and actually help me with what I can't do myself. Wow. Okay. I love that. Let's take another one. So I'm more of an anxious person. So I know me. And when I go to bed at night, I do not watch news before I go to bed. I even watch what kind of things I read. I like to read a lot of nonfiction. I really love reading stuff about the war, like World War II and stuff, but it's brutal. Mm-hmm <affirmative> Stuff is brutal, right? I realized, I like this stuff. I can listen to it when I'm on my walks, but before I go to bed and I put that in my head, or I watch the news and watch the latest thing,

(24:34):

I know me, if I do that I should expect to wake up at 2:00 AM with a little mini panic attack. So then when I'm embracing what is, I'm embracing Jim how do you take care of yourself? Danny, how do you take care of yourself? What tools do you have to take care of you? Honoring those things in you that if you don't are gonna be in trouble, what does that look like? Then we're collecting our tools. Totally. We're collecting what tools we can use. Totally. And if that means I clean my pantry because that helps me be less anxious let's say, I'll do that. Let's take another one, let's say you got a kid in the back room, you know, 27 years old just sitting in the back room smoking weed, and you're just so frustrated and you really want to get on. You're scared to death.

(25:14):

When you begin to embrace, like he should just sit back there to smoke weed. You know how I know that? It's because that's what he does. <haha (laugh)> yeah. Okay. So I'm accepting, he's got a problem. Now I have to figure out when I embrace that, I'm trying to figure out what can I do to be healthy in this situation? And it may be, I gotta put boundaries up and kick the kid out or whatever that may be other things I need to do. That could be hard, right? To discern in anybody's life what those pieces may look like, because it's always so confusing and complex, you know, my world. I don't think there's many things that are simple. Totally. If they're simple, you would've solved that a long time ago. <haha (laugh)> totally, totally. Yeah. If it was as simple as well, gee, you know, I gotta deal with my eating and so

(25:55):

I just won't buy ice cream. That life was that simple. It's not, it's not right. It's not. And so that's part of what we're respecting is we're respecting the fact that this is a journey, but I'm learning along the way because I'm not just in the victim mode, I'm really taking active participation. As I try to understand it, put labels to it, get tools that I can use and then try to use 'em, right? Because you and I both know you can just be, so you know how we recycle stuff over and over again? Oh, totally go backwards.

(26:23):

Well and it's head knowledge and, and all of that. It's how do you apply this to your life? You know? And you just said the thing of out the ice cream, right? So, okay. I've eaten too much ice cream. I eat too many desserts. We can beat ourselves up for it. When we beat ourselves up for it, all we do is it perpetuates it, right? And we're eating more ice cream. We're eating more desserts. Where I think what you're saying is okay, I'm drawn to it. I love it. I should be it's my DNA. It's just what I like. It's my flavor. Okay. So now that I embrace that, how do I put up good boundaries for myself so that I don't binge on ice cream every night? And then figuring out the tools to use and to navigate that.

(26:23): (26:59):

Danny, that's well said! The shaming, the judging yourself for being yourself, I don't think will get you anywhere. I really don't. I don't think it works. I think religion often feeds that, or religion is about casting a vision of what God wants for you in your life. God wants you to have joy. God wants you to have victory. God, you know, all these, I think it just casts this shame based expectation in there. And expectations we've said before, you know, expectations are premeditated resentments, well, expectations are premeditated shaming and guilt too. Yeah. In my experience, I don't think it gets us very much at all. You know, in long term really change. So the more fundamental change that Jesus was always talking about is that deeper change of our heart. Mm-hmm <affirmative> Not a change of behavior necessarily. Okay. Even Jesus said that the tree, you know the tree, okay. It's got bad fruit in the tree. That's because there's some root problem. There's something down there in the roots that isn't healthy. We gotta look at the roots of our heart, right? Which very often are those wounds and shame places.

(28:05):

Gosh, I love that, Jim! I love that. You made me think of that scripture, loving-kindness leads to repentance, Romans 2. Where I always look at it from a external, you know, loving-kindness to the sinner quote-unquote out there, is gonna lead them to repentance, where the reality is loving-kindness towards myself with God's grace and compassion. If I have something to repent, the Holy Spirit's gonna lead me and guide me. If I'm that off the rails, like loving-kindness is what is going to lead me to change. Even within myself with God's power, right? Because so much of the time, what you're talking about is when we were white knuckling, all the powers all in us like, oh gosh, I should have victory becauseI have Jesus in my heart. We're really only gonna have victory if we partner with God and God helps us and walks through it and through loving-kindness. It's not even about the victory, it's about the encounter with our hearts, right? I mean, that's what you're saying about the root and the fruit, the root and the fruit. That rhymes!!

(28:55):

Yeah. You're spot on. Why was Jesus drawn to these people whose fruit look bad? According to the world, it looked pretty crappy, right? Why was he drawn to them? Because there's something about their openness and their lack of pretense or judgment. The Pharisees who looked pretty good on the outside, he was all over them. He was pretty firm whitewashed, right? Yeah. You look all good on the outside, but you know your dry bones inside. So the deeper need in this is the deeper need of connection in our brokenness without shame. That's why communities of acceptance like AA, or 12 step programs, or celebrate recovery are so good because they're communities of acceptance and grace. Absolutely. So I can come as I am. This is why so many churches have a hard time reproducing this because they have a very hard time having that rawness and openness. And they'll end up shaming people.

(29:51):

You know, the you're only as sick as your secrets kind of thing. Well, we do that because we're hiding, because it's not acceptable. The loving kindness towards yourself, right? Oh my gosh. So the way I like to say it is, it's not that I like everything about me. I don't. It's not that. It's, I'm really trying to learn how to

accept everything about me. Okay. I'm learning how to find a position of acceptance. They say you can change nothing until you accept it first. I tell you that's spot on. It's so true. And I would say even then, even when you accept it, it's a paradox, but you have to accept it without that being a tactic to change it. This is sort of a mind struggle. Okay. If for the rest of my life, I struggle with X, Y, or Z,

(30:36):

can I find a way to accept that life. Through acceptance I find a way to find purpose and joy and help with other people and use that as a way to grow, right? Because there's a lot of things in life that you can't change. Well, I can't change my past. I cannot undo what happened in my past, including what happened to me and things I did. Choices I made too. I can't change that, but what I can change is how I view that past. And that is weird, but you actually transform your past because you change how you view your past. <haha (laugh)>

(31:08):

Totally! I mean, and that opens a whole other, I remember for years you were like, okay, Danny, let's rewrite the story. Yes. The narrative you're living through is absolutely true. That's one narrative, but you're only looking through one tiny window. You gotta look through another window. What's another perspective? And that's through time.

(31:25):

Thats right. And very hard to change those narratives because they're attached to our shame or our despair, right? So it's hard. And that's why community is so helpful because you start hearing other people. There's you across the room, right, someone talking and you can hear your story through them, right? It's very sort of so helpful. Cause sometimes it's easier to give it to others, than to ourselves.

(31:45):

Oh totally! All right my friends, this wraps up part one of our interview with Jim and holy moly, I told you it was gonna be awesome! Man, the guy is just full of so much experience and wisdom and knowledge. And as you can tell through his tone, compassion and grace. And so man, I just thank God for men like Jim, and for human beings like Jim. And so you guys, let me say a little prayer over you and I'm excited to see you next time! All right, Father God, I thank you for this day, Lord. I thank you for Jim. I thank you for his wisdom and his experience. Lord, I pray just a blessing to him, Lord, for his willingness to even come on the podcast and to share his heart. And so Father God, I pray for my friend listening right now. Lord, we talked about some really big concepts.

(32:27):

Lord, I know that acceptance is one of the hardest things. It's just so hard to accept those places in our lives or those things about ourselves that we just, oh, we almost resent. We almost hate God. I pray Father God for your grace to abound Lord. These are really easy concepts to talk about. They're really hard to live out. And so God, I pray for the power, and the grace, and the mercy, and the tenderness Lord of your hand to just minister to my friend's hearts, Lord, as they walk out and try to accept the places in their lives that just seem unacceptable and hard. So Lord only you can do it. Lord, I pray you'd bless my friends. I pray you'd give them joy and peace God and help them to know they are not alone, God. And that you have a purpose for their life, God, and that you are not done with them. And so Lord, no matter what they're feeling, what they're going through, God, I thank you that you are not done with them Lord. And so just bless them. And may your face shine upon them in Jesus name, Amen!!

(33:24):

Hello, my friend. If this episode blessed you, made you laugh, or triggered you, hey, that's growth! Please do me a favor and share this with a friend. And if you feel led, please leave a written review for the show. That really helps us out! Don't forget you are in good company, if you're feeling more broken than you'd like to admit. You are more loved than you can ever imagine! Have a great week, see you next time!!